https://x.com/RepPatHarrigan/status/2055318212041171384?s=20 CDR Mike Brattland, USN (Ret.) <mailto:mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com <mailto:mgbrattland@brattland.org> mgbrattland@brattland.org Admin/Moderator SanDiegoCarGuys List & Calendar of Events <mailto:sandiegocarguys@brattland.org> sandiegocarguys@brattland.org 619 454-0496 '38 Willys 2 Dr Sedan Webmaster for <http://www.brattland.org/> www.brattland.org <http://www.overthehillgang.com/> www.overthehillgang.com <http://www.overdrivehotrodnews.com/> www.overdrivehotrodnews.com <http://www.gerlecreek.org/> www.gerlecreek.org <http://www.helobubbas.com/> www.helobubbas.com <http://www.prowlers.org/> www.prowlers.org <http://www.gerlecreek.com/> www.gerlecreek.com <http://www.ford6vcarburetion.com/> www.ford6vcarburetion.com <http://www.westcoastwillysclub.com/> www.westcoastwillysclub.com <http://www.nssha.org/> www.nssha.org <http://www.nhahistoricalsociety.org/> www.nhahistoricalsociety.org <https://sh60fhoas.nhahistoricalsociety.org/> https://sh60fhoas.nhahistoricalsociety.org/
The old sad story...save program costs and leave buying the data to Logistics people down line! Then the Logistics people can't get right kind of procurement fund to do something that should have done on the front end of a program. If you don't buy the data rights, no manufacturer in their right mind gives away rights for free. They have shareholders as well! And that commits logistics procurement to buy from original producer at negotiated current price plus procurement management costs. And procurement of _one each of anything_ incurs the fully loaded gross price tag. So the Congressman can make the claim that a specialty manufacturer is the bad guy, but it was highly ranked DoD official or Flag officer that made the decision not to procure the design data and probably got a promotion for "saving procurement funds" on the program cost!! In the end, everyone looks dumb!! On 5/15/2026 14:31, mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com wrote:
https://x.com/RepPatHarrigan/status/2055318212041171384?s=20
*/CDR Mike Brattland, USN (Ret.) mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com <mailto:mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> /**//*
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-- untitled Harold & Elaine Brattland //// <mailto:habrattland@Comcast.net>//609 Granger Rd, Detroit Lakes MN 56501-4112 Home Phone 218.846.1283, habrattland@Arvig.net | embrattland@Arvig.net <mailto:embrattland@Arvig.net>
I ran into this exact situation with the RSNF 60R sim a few years back. The government thought they could nudge out industry for a cheaper solution only to discover that sustainment was dependent on proprietary knowledge/technology and nobody was interested in buying or selling the data rights. Like Harold said, the whole issue could be resolved very early in the program, but smart business is not useful to an acquisition FITREP and doesn’t really seem to be of interest to the government at all. On Fri, May 15, 2026 at 4:35 PM Harold Brattland <habrattland@arvig.net> wrote:
The old sad story...save program costs and leave buying the data to Logistics people down line! Then the Logistics people can't get right kind of procurement fund to do something that should have done on the front end of a program. If you don't buy the data rights, no manufacturer in their right mind gives away rights for free. They have shareholders as well! And that commits logistics procurement to buy from original producer at negotiated current price plus procurement management costs. And procurement of *one each of anything* incurs the fully loaded gross price tag.
So the Congressman can make the claim that a specialty manufacturer is the bad guy, but it was highly ranked DoD official or Flag officer that made the decision not to procure the design data and probably got a promotion for "saving procurement funds" on the program cost!!
In the end, everyone looks dumb!!
On 5/15/2026 14:31, mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com wrote:
https://x.com/RepPatHarrigan/status/2055318212041171384?s=20
*CDR Mike Brattland, USN (Ret.) mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com <mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> *
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Lee Iacocca and his parts profit theory adapted by manufacturing. Sent from my Galaxy -------- Original message --------From: Brian Miller <brianjmiller1977@gmail.com> Date: 5/17/26 6:47 AM (GMT-07:00) To: Harold Brattland <habrattland@arvig.net> Cc: helobubbas@helobubbas.com Subject: [Helobubbas] Re: Sikorsky $4 knob? I ran into this exact situation with the RSNF 60R sim a few years back. The government thought they could nudge out industry for a cheaper solution only to discover that sustainment was dependent on proprietary knowledge/technology and nobody was interested in buying or selling the data rights. Like Harold said, the whole issue could be resolved very early in the program, but smart business is not useful to an acquisition FITREP and doesn’t really seem to be of interest to the government at all.On Fri, May 15, 2026 at 4:35 PM Harold Brattland <habrattland@arvig.net> wrote: The old sad story...save program costs and leave buying the data to Logistics people down line! Then the Logistics people can't get right kind of procurement fund to do something that should have done on the front end of a program. If you don't buy the data rights, no manufacturer in their right mind gives away rights for free. They have shareholders as well! And that commits logistics procurement to buy from original producer at negotiated current price plus procurement management costs. And procurement of one each of anything incurs the fully loaded gross price tag. So the Congressman can make the claim that a specialty manufacturer is the bad guy, but it was highly ranked DoD official or Flag officer that made the decision not to procure the design data and probably got a promotion for "saving procurement funds" on the program cost!! In the end, everyone looks dumb!! On 5/15/2026 14:31, mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com wrote: https://x.com/RepPatHarrigan/status/2055318212041171384?s=20 CDR Mike Brattland, USN (Ret.) mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com mgbrattland@brattland.org Admin/Moderator SanDiegoCarGuys List & Calendar of Events sandiegocarguys@brattland.org 619 454-0496 ’38 Willys 2 Dr Sedan Webmaster for www.brattland.org www.overthehillgang.com www.overdrivehotrodnews.com www.gerlecreek.org www.helobubbas.com www.prowlers.org www.gerlecreek.com www.ford6vcarburetion.com www.westcoastwillysclub.com www.nssha.org www.nhahistoricalsociety.org https://sh60fhoas.nhahistoricalsociety.org/ _______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com -- Harold & Elaine Brattland 609 Granger Rd, Detroit Lakes MN 56501-4112 Home Phone 218.846.1283, habrattland@Arvig.net | embrattland@Arvig.net _______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com
In the few major acquisition contracts I was involved with, not a single prospective contractor would even provide a data rights quote when asked. John Olmstead -----Original Message----- From: Brian Miller <brianjmiller1977@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2026 8:47 AM To: Harold Brattland <habrattland@arvig.net> Cc: helobubbas@helobubbas.com Subject: [Helobubbas] Re: Sikorsky $4 knob? I ran into this exact situation with the RSNF 60R sim a few years back. The government thought they could nudge out industry for a cheaper solution only to discover that sustainment was dependent on proprietary knowledge/technology and nobody was interested in buying or selling the data rights. Like Harold said, the whole issue could be resolved very early in the program, but smart business is not useful to an acquisition FITREP and doesn’t really seem to be of interest to the government at all. On Fri, May 15, 2026 at 4:35 PM Harold Brattland <habrattland@arvig.net <mailto:habrattland@arvig.net> > wrote: The old sad story...save program costs and leave buying the data to Logistics people down line! Then the Logistics people can't get right kind of procurement fund to do something that should have done on the front end of a program. If you don't buy the data rights, no manufacturer in their right mind gives away rights for free. They have shareholders as well! And that commits logistics procurement to buy from original producer at negotiated current price plus procurement management costs. And procurement of one each of anything incurs the fully loaded gross price tag. So the Congressman can make the claim that a specialty manufacturer is the bad guy, but it was highly ranked DoD official or Flag officer that made the decision not to procure the design data and probably got a promotion for "saving procurement funds" on the program cost!! In the end, everyone looks dumb!! On 5/15/2026 14:31, mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com <mailto:mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> wrote: https://x.com/RepPatHarrigan/status/2055318212041171384?s=20 CDR Mike Brattland, USN (Ret.) mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com <mailto:mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> mgbrattland@brattland.org <mailto:mgbrattland@brattland.org> Admin/Moderator SanDiegoCarGuys List & Calendar of Events sandiegocarguys@brattland.org <mailto:sandiegocarguys@brattland.org> 619 454-0496 ’38 Willys 2 Dr Sedan Webmaster for www.brattland.org <http://www.brattland.org/> www.overthehillgang.com <http://www.overthehillgang.com/> www.overdrivehotrodnews.com <http://www.overdrivehotrodnews.com/> www.gerlecreek.org <http://www.gerlecreek.org/> www.helobubbas.com <http://www.helobubbas.com/> www.prowlers.org <http://www.prowlers.org/> www.gerlecreek.com <http://www.gerlecreek.com/> www.ford6vcarburetion.com <http://www.ford6vcarburetion.com/> www.westcoastwillysclub.com <http://www.westcoastwillysclub.com/> www.nssha.org <http://www.nssha.org/> www.nhahistoricalsociety.org <http://www.nhahistoricalsociety.org/> https://sh60fhoas.nhahistoricalsociety.org/ <https://sh60fhoas.nhahistoricalsociety.org/> _______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com <mailto:helobubbas@helobubbas.com> To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com <mailto:helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com> -- Harold & Elaine Brattland <mailto:habrattland@Comcast.net> 609 Granger Rd, Detroit Lakes MN 56501-4112 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/609+Granger+Rd,+Detroit+Lakes+MN%0D%0A++++++++++++56501-4112?entry=gmail&source=g> Home Phone 218.846.1283, habrattland@Arvig.net <mailto:habrattland@Arvig.net> | embrattland@Arvig.net <mailto:embrattland@Arvig.net> _______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com <mailto:helobubbas@helobubbas.com> To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com <mailto:helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com>
Ya, at that point they know they have procurement by the short hairs!! It needs to be part of the of the major system procurement, where winner has to certify all subs data is available to logistics agency if theirs is winning offer.!! It was really a tough problem when we were buying unique, one-off equipment for test ranges!! h On 5/17/2026 10:40, olmsteaj@erols.com wrote:
In the few major acquisition contracts I was involved with, not a single prospective contractor would even provide a data rights quote when asked. John Olmstead
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Miller<brianjmiller1977@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2026 8:47 AM To: Harold Brattland<habrattland@arvig.net> Cc:helobubbas@helobubbas.com Subject: [Helobubbas] Re: Sikorsky $4 knob?
I ran into this exact situation with the RSNF 60R sim a few years back. The government thought they could nudge out industry for a cheaper solution only to discover that sustainment was dependent on proprietary knowledge/technology and nobody was interested in buying or selling the data rights. Like Harold said, the whole issue could be resolved very early in the program, but smart business is not useful to an acquisition FITREP and doesn’t really seem to be of interest to the government at all.
On Fri, May 15, 2026 at 4:35 PM Harold Brattland <habrattland@arvig.net <mailto:habrattland@arvig.net> > wrote:
The old sad story...save program costs and leave buying the data to Logistics people down line! Then the Logistics people can't get right kind of procurement fund to do something that should have done on the front end of a program. If you don't buy the data rights, no manufacturer in their right mind gives away rights for free. They have shareholders as well! And that commits logistics procurement to buy from original producer at negotiated current price plus procurement management costs. And procurement of one each of anything incurs the fully loaded gross price tag.
So the Congressman can make the claim that a specialty manufacturer is the bad guy, but it was highly ranked DoD official or Flag officer that made the decision not to procure the design data and probably got a promotion for "saving procurement funds" on the program cost!!
In the end, everyone looks dumb!!
On 5/15/2026 14:31,mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com <mailto:mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> wrote:
https://x.com/RepPatHarrigan/status/2055318212041171384?s=20
CDR Mike Brattland, USN (Ret.)mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com <mailto:mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com>
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Admin/Moderator SanDiegoCarGuys List & Calendar of Events
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<mailto:habrattland@Comcast.net> 609 Granger Rd, Detroit Lakes MN 56501-4112<https://www.google.com/maps/search/609+Granger+Rd,+Detroit+Lakes+MN%0D%0A++++++++++++56501-4112?entry=gmail&source=g>
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-- untitled Harold & Elaine Brattland //// <mailto:habrattland@Comcast.net>//609 Granger Rd, Detroit Lakes MN 56501-4112 Home Phone 218.846.1283, habrattland@Arvig.net | embrattland@Arvig.net <mailto:embrattland@Arvig.net>
With the Navy LAMPS MKIII procurement, neither Boeing (H-61) nor Sikorsky (H-60) would submit a proposal with data rights included. Perhaps if the Army had required data rights in its UTTAS proposals, things would have been different for the Navy. John Olmstead. -----Original Message----- From: Harold Brattland <habrattland@arvig.net> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2026 6:53 PM To: helobubbas@helobubbas.com Subject: [Helobubbas] Re: Sikorsky $4 knob? Ya, at that point they know they have procurement by the short hairs!! It needs to be part of the of the major system procurement, where winner has to certify all subs data is available to logistics agency if theirs is winning offer.!! It was really a tough problem when we were buying unique, one-off equipment for test ranges!! h On 5/17/2026 10:40, olmsteaj@erols.com <mailto:olmsteaj@erols.com> wrote: In the few major acquisition contracts I was involved with, not a single prospective contractor would even provide a data rights quote when asked. John Olmstead -----Original Message----- From: Brian Miller <brianjmiller1977@gmail.com> <mailto:brianjmiller1977@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2026 8:47 AM To: Harold Brattland <habrattland@arvig.net> <mailto:habrattland@arvig.net> Cc: helobubbas@helobubbas.com <mailto:helobubbas@helobubbas.com> Subject: [Helobubbas] Re: Sikorsky $4 knob? I ran into this exact situation with the RSNF 60R sim a few years back. The government thought they could nudge out industry for a cheaper solution only to discover that sustainment was dependent on proprietary knowledge/technology and nobody was interested in buying or selling the data rights. Like Harold said, the whole issue could be resolved very early in the program, but smart business is not useful to an acquisition FITREP and doesn’t really seem to be of interest to the government at all. On Fri, May 15, 2026 at 4:35 PM Harold Brattland <habrattland@arvig.net <mailto:habrattland@arvig.net> <mailto:habrattland@arvig.net> <mailto:habrattland@arvig.net> > wrote: The old sad story...save program costs and leave buying the data to Logistics people down line! Then the Logistics people can't get right kind of procurement fund to do something that should have done on the front end of a program. If you don't buy the data rights, no manufacturer in their right mind gives away rights for free. They have shareholders as well! And that commits logistics procurement to buy from original producer at negotiated current price plus procurement management costs. And procurement of one each of anything incurs the fully loaded gross price tag. So the Congressman can make the claim that a specialty manufacturer is the bad guy, but it was highly ranked DoD official or Flag officer that made the decision not to procure the design data and probably got a promotion for "saving procurement funds" on the program cost!! In the end, everyone looks dumb!! On 5/15/2026 14:31, mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com <mailto:mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> <mailto:mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> <mailto:mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> wrote: https://x.com/RepPatHarrigan/status/2055318212041171384?s=20 CDR Mike Brattland, USN (Ret.) mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com <mailto:mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> <mailto:mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> <mailto:mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> mgbrattland@brattland.org <mailto:mgbrattland@brattland.org> <mailto:mgbrattland@brattland.org> <mailto:mgbrattland@brattland.org> Admin/Moderator SanDiegoCarGuys List & Calendar of Events sandiegocarguys@brattland.org <mailto:sandiegocarguys@brattland.org> <mailto:sandiegocarguys@brattland.org> <mailto:sandiegocarguys@brattland.org> 619 454-0496 ’38 Willys 2 Dr Sedan Webmaster for www.brattland.org <http://www.brattland.org> <http://www.brattland.org/> <http://www.brattland.org/> www.overthehillgang.com <http://www.overthehillgang.com> <http://www.overthehillgang.com/> <http://www.overthehillgang.com/> www.overdrivehotrodnews.com <http://www.overdrivehotrodnews.com> <http://www.overdrivehotrodnews.com/> <http://www.overdrivehotrodnews.com/> www.gerlecreek.org <http://www.gerlecreek.org> <http://www.gerlecreek.org/> <http://www.gerlecreek.org/> www.helobubbas.com <http://www.helobubbas.com> <http://www.helobubbas.com/> <http://www.helobubbas.com/> www.prowlers.org <http://www.prowlers.org> <http://www.prowlers.org/> <http://www.prowlers.org/> www.gerlecreek.com <http://www.gerlecreek.com> <http://www.gerlecreek.com/> <http://www.gerlecreek.com/> www.ford6vcarburetion.com <http://www.ford6vcarburetion.com> <http://www.ford6vcarburetion.com/> <http://www.ford6vcarburetion.com/> www.westcoastwillysclub.com <http://www.westcoastwillysclub.com> <http://www.westcoastwillysclub.com/> <http://www.westcoastwillysclub.com/> www.nssha.org <http://www.nssha.org> <http://www.nssha.org/> <http://www.nssha.org/> www.nhahistoricalsociety.org <http://www.nhahistoricalsociety.org> <http://www.nhahistoricalsociety.org/> <http://www.nhahistoricalsociety.org/> https://sh60fhoas.nhahistoricalsociety.org/ <https://sh60fhoas.nhahistoricalsociety.org/> <https://sh60fhoas.nhahistoricalsociety.org/> _______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com <mailto:helobubbas@helobubbas.com> <mailto:helobubbas@helobubbas.com> <mailto:helobubbas@helobubbas.com> To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com <mailto:helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com> <mailto:helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com> <mailto:helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com> -- Harold & Elaine Brattland <mailto:habrattland@Comcast.net> <mailto:habrattland@Comcast.net> 609 Granger Rd, Detroit Lakes MN 56501-4112 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/609+Granger+Rd,+Detroit+Lakes+MN%0D%0A++++++++++++56501-4112?entry=gmail&source=g> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/609+Granger+Rd,+Detroit+Lakes+MN%0D%0A++++++++++++56501-4112?entry=gmail&source=g> Home Phone 218.846.1283, habrattland@Arvig.net <mailto:habrattland@Arvig.net> <mailto:habrattland@Arvig.net> <mailto:habrattland@Arvig.net> | embrattland@Arvig.net <mailto:embrattland@Arvig.net> <mailto:embrattland@Arvig.net> <mailto:embrattland@Arvig.net> _______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com <mailto:helobubbas@helobubbas.com> <mailto:helobubbas@helobubbas.com> <mailto:helobubbas@helobubbas.com> To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com <mailto:helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com> <mailto:helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com> <mailto:helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com> _______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com <mailto:helobubbas@helobubbas.com> To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com <mailto:helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com> -- Harold & Elaine Brattland <mailto:habrattland@Comcast.net> 609 Granger Rd, Detroit Lakes MN 56501-4112 Home Phone 218.846.1283, habrattland@Arvig.net <mailto:habrattland@Arvig.net> | embrattland@Arvig.net <mailto:embrattland@Arvig.net>
participants (5)
-
andy.cain -
Brian Miller -
Harold Brattland -
mgbrattland＠gerlecreek.com -
olmsteaj＠erols.com