I enjoy hearing from actual lawyers. These morons are so isolated from reality that they thought they were attacking Trump instead of the reality that they undermining the lawful chain of command. That makes them stupid, but not criminal. It hasn’t gone over well in the veteran spaces I follow and the fact that space boi is parading himself around like a victim of his own idiocy instead of taking ownership of his attack on good order snd discipline on the deck plates hasn’t helped his case. What a great, original and accurate description for the Senator from Arizona Brian! mgb

While yucking it up about lawyers and congressmen, don't forget the non-military counsel in Office of Legal Council DOJ that wrote the classified opinion providing the basis (legal basis???) for combat ops in Caribbean, since no action requested of Congress.    Stupid is ignoring the Constitution, thinking no one will notice. h On 12/4/2025 15:22, Marc Liebman wrote:

You can’t fix stupid.

Marc Liebman

https://www.marcliebman.com <https://www.marcliebman.com>

https://www.facebook.com/marcliebmanauthor/ <https://www.facebook.com/marcliebmanauthor/>

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_sDoFQM5wupNaCeGIvKL1g <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_sDoFQM5wupNaCeGIvKL1g>

*From: *Mike Brattland <mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> *Date: *Thursday, December 4, 2025 at 10:28 AM *To: *'Brian Miller' <brianjmiller1977@gmail.com> *Cc: *'HeloBubbas' <helobubbas@helobubbas.com> *Subject: *[Helobubbas] Re: The Seditious Six

I enjoy hearing from actual lawyers. These morons are so isolated from reality that they thought they were attacking Trump instead of the reality that they undermining the lawful chain of command.  That makes them stupid, but not criminal.  It hasn’t gone over well in the veteran spaces I follow and the fact that space boi is parading himself around like a victim of his own idiocyinstead of taking ownership of his attack on good order snd discipline on the deck plates hasn’t helped his case.

What a great, original and accurate description for the Senator from Arizona Brian! mgb

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-- untitled Harold & Elaine Brattland //// <mailto:habrattland@Comcast.net>//609 Granger Rd, Detroit Lakes MN 56501-4112 Home Phone 218.846.1283, habrattland@Arvig.net | embrattland@Arvig.net <mailto:embrattland@Arvig.net>

I think I have it all figured out!  For the last 25-40 years depending on your view point, our Legislative Branch of Government is suffering from a group personality I've decided to call "abdication by decidophobia."  In the last 20 years this "disease" has spread to senior leadership in many, if not  most, departments of our government.   In the last 5 years the "We the People," mentioned in early American documents, sensed something was wrong and voted for change but our combined focus was on the wrong Branch Of Government.  We collectively split the vote of 2 poor choices without understanding that the original disease of lame legislative houses was continuing to decline and had created a fertile soil for a great statesmen or a tyrannical nut job to dig in like an invasive species. Where are the great Statesmen or Women of this country? We never had a chance and won't get anywhere positive until Senators and Congressional Representatives bedridden with this dreaded disease of "abdication by decidophobia." are removed and replaced with "newer models". So what did I figure out?  We need a few New Rules for election of legislators,   Mandatory retirement at age 70 and term limits of 4 terms for the House and 3 terms for the Senate. Feel free to pile on with critique, offer smart ass remarks or even add in some New Rules like no NEW Stock Market involvement of any kind while in office. Happy Holidays to all unrestricted aviators and their families, and may the New Year revert this email group back to issues where we are actually Professors Emerita. W/r, AL  Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com

The only problem with instigating any / all of your excellent changes in how we elect, tolerate, and honor through privileges our elected Congress people is that to effect any change we must rely on actions in accordance with "We the People" changes by the same miscreants we want to correct. Unfortunately none of our hoped for reforms will see the light of day much less enactment. *Lou* On Fri, Dec 5, 2025 at 6:48 PM <olmsteaj@erols.com> wrote:

A couple suggestions to add to your excellent "a few New Rules for election of legislators" list: - term limits of 4 terms for the House and 2 terms for the Senate - the same social security and health care options we the people have - government housing provided in the DC area to reduce one of the financial incentives for homesteading - not providing lifetime full retirement salary until age 65 after serving honorably at least 6 years

V/R John Olmstead

-----Original Message----- From: ahaefner@aol.com <ahaefner@aol.com> Sent: Friday, December 5, 2025 6:09 PM To: brianjmiller1977@gmail.com; habrattland@arvig.net Cc: helobubbas@helobubbas.com Subject: [Helobubbas] Re: All this political chat from former RotorHeads

I think I have it all figured out!

For the last 25-40 years depending on your view point, our Legislative Branch of Government is suffering from a group personality I've decided to call "abdication by decidophobia."

In the last 20 years this "disease" has spread to senior leadership in many, if not most, departments of our government.

In the last 5 years the "We the People," mentioned in early American documents, sensed something was wrong and voted for change but our combined focus was on the wrong Branch Of Government.

We collectively split the vote of 2 poor choices without understanding that the original disease of lame legislative houses was continuing to decline and had created a fertile soil for a great statesmen or a tyrannical nut job to dig in like an invasive species. Where are the great Statesmen or Women of this country?

We never had a chance and won't get anywhere positive until Senators and Congressional Representatives bedridden with this dreaded disease of "abdication by decidophobia." are removed and replaced with "newer models".

So what did I figure out? We need a few New Rules for election of legislators, Mandatory retirement at age 70 and term limits of 4 terms for the House and 3 terms for the Senate.

Feel free to pile on with critique, offer smart ass remarks or even add in some New Rules like no NEW Stock Market involvement of any kind while in office.

Happy Holidays to all unrestricted aviators and their families, and may the New Year revert this email group back to issues where we are actually Professors Emerita.

W/r, AL

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Time for some clarity on definitions and roles and responsibilities. I’ve done counter and anti-terrorism, helped create NORTHCOM, trained as a terrorism liaison officer (TLO), and later in life turned that experience into a doctorate in homeland security management. Still deeply research with the homeland defense and the homeland security side of the coin. Terrorism is the unlawful use of violence, or the threat of violence, against people or property to create fear and coerce a government, civilian population, or organization to further political, social, or ideological goals. Key components include a violent act, the goal of intimidating or coercing a population or government, and political or ideological objectives. Narco-terrorism is when drug traffickers use violence, intimidation, and threats to corrupt governments, disrupt anti-drug efforts, and influence state policies, essentially blurring the lines between organized crime and political terrorism, often seen with powerful cartels attacking officials or civilians to protect their illicit drug trade. The "war clause" is the Declare War Clause, found in Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the U.S. Constitution, which grants Congress the exclusive power to declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules for capture on land and water. This clause establishes a separation of powers, with Congress responsible for initiating a formal state of war, while the President acts as the Commander-in-Chief to lead the military once war is declared. There isn't a single "smuggler interdiction clause" in the U.S. Constitution, but powers derive from the Commerce Clause (Article I, Sec 8), authorizing Congress to regulate foreign trade, and the Necessary & Proper Clause, while federal statutes (like 19 USC Ch. 5) empower the President to create customs-enforcement areas for stopping smuggling, often involving the Coast Guard and Homeland Security. The Coast Guard is not in, or under the control of, the Department of Defense. The Constitution gives Congress broad powers over immigration and commerce, allowing laws for border security and stopping illegal introductions of people/goods, using executive actions and federal agencies like CBP, though military involvement is limited by the Posse Comitatus Act. The military executing law enforcement activities, sans supporting real law enforcement, is illegal. Killing people hanging on a damaged boat used to smuggle anything, including illicit drugs is illegal. Under the U.S. Constitution and the War Powers Resolution of 1973, only Congress has the power to formally declare war or authorize the use of military force in hostilities. Congress has not passed a formal declaration of war or created a new Authorization for the Use of Military Force (AUMF) against narco-terrorists. This former combat proven British officer and now barrister married to a high ranking member of Scotland Yard has some interesting thoughts. He’s a been there, done that, has the scars, and still does warrior. DISCLAIMER: I flew with his father on exchange duty back in the dim-times. From: Andrew Fox from Fox On War <mrandrewfox@substack.com <mailto:mrandrewfox@substack.com> > Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2025 at 10:35 Subject: Venezuela and the United States To: < <https://eotrx.substackcdn.com/open?token=eyJtIjoiPDIwMjUxMjA1MTAzNTAxLjMuMWFlZDg0MWY3N2YxNjFiYkBtZzEuc3Vic3RhY2suY29tPiIsInUiOjI0MDI2Mzk4OCwiciI6ImFsYmllbWZveEBnbWFpbC5jb20iLCJkIjoibWcxLnN1YnN0YWNrLmNvbSIsInAiOjE4MDc4MTc0OSwidCI6Im5ld3NsZXR0ZXIiLCJhIjoib25seV9wYWlkIiwicyI6MjY2MTU1NCwiYyI6InBvc3QiLCJmIjpmYWxzZSwicG9zaXRpb24iOiJ0b3AiLCJpYXQiOjE3NjQ5MzA5MDcsImV4cCI6MTc2NzUyMjkwNywiaXNzIjoicHViLTAiLCJzdWIiOiJlbyJ9.ECEQQ7jO9WsFev8aTBr68KG0SF6u1KFWY_xXQTZFadk> The art of calling everything a threat ͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­͏   ­ View in browser This post is just for paid subscribers: the people who make it possible for me to go out on the ground, report, and come back with something more than hot takes. If you’d like to see more reporting like this, let me know in the comments – I prioritise paid readers’ questions and suggestions. _____ <https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=2661554&post_id=180781749&utm_source=post-email-title&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=false&r=3z1ovo&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoyNDAyNjM5ODgsInBvc3RfaWQiOjE4MDc4MTc0OSwiaWF0IjoxNzY0OTMwOTA3LCJleHAiOjE3Njc1MjI5MDcsImlzcyI6InB1Yi0yNjYxNTU0Iiwic3ViIjoicG9zdC1yZWFjdGlvbiJ9.PxCF6XgJ-myi5W9um55pu6r8Z7z8UdBwOs6_s3lw6M4> Venezuela and the United States The art of calling everything a threat <https://substack.com/@mrandrewfox> Andrew Fox Dec 5 ∙ Paid <https://substack.com/@mrandrewfox> <https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=2661554&post_id=180781749&utm_source=substack&isFreemail=false&submitLike=true&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoyNDAyNjM5ODgsInBvc3RfaWQiOjE4MDc4MTc0OSwicmVhY3Rpb24iOiLinaQiLCJpYXQiOjE3NjQ5MzA5MDcsImV4cCI6MTc2NzUyMjkwNywiaXNzIjoicHViLTI2NjE1NTQiLCJzdWIiOiJyZWFjdGlvbiJ9.kcqEeScPGh5qLzDedMrBapQx3Ng3LCSgjqNlTUKBy7w&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=email-reaction&r=3z1ovo> <https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=2661554&post_id=180781749&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&isFreemail=false&comments=true&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoyNDAyNjM5ODgsInBvc3RfaWQiOjE4MDc4MTc0OSwiaWF0IjoxNzY0OTMwOTA3LCJleHAiOjE3Njc1MjI5MDcsImlzcyI6InB1Yi0yNjYxNTU0Iiwic3ViIjoicG9zdC1yZWFjdGlvbiJ9.PxCF6XgJ-myi5W9um55pu6r8Z7z8UdBwOs6_s3lw6M4&r=3z1ovo&utm_campaign=email-half-magic-comments&action=post-comment&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email> <https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=2661554&post_id=180781749&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share&utm_campaign=email-share&action=share&triggerShare=true&isFreemail=false&r=3z1ovo&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoyNDAyNjM5ODgsInBvc3RfaWQiOjE4MDc4MTc0OSwiaWF0IjoxNzY0OTMwOTA3LCJleHAiOjE3Njc1MjI5MDcsImlzcyI6InB1Yi0yNjYxNTU0Iiwic3ViIjoicG9zdC1yZWFjdGlvbiJ9.PxCF6XgJ-myi5W9um55pu6r8Z7z8UdBwOs6_s3lw6M4> <https://open.substack.com/pub/mrandrewfox/p/venezuela-and-the-united-states?utm_source=email&redirect=app-store&utm_campaign=email-read-in-app> <https://open.substack.com/pub/mrandrewfox/p/venezuela-and-the-united-states?utm_source=email&redirect=app-store&utm_campaign=email-read-in-app> READ IN APP This is a deeper dive for paid subscribers to really get to the core of understanding the US issues with Venezuela. Free gets the briefings. Paid gets every deep dive, every field report from war zones, and a say in what I cover next. My first field trip of 2026 is confirmed: Lebanon and Syria. If you want to see my reports, subscribe now and don’t miss a detailed analysis of the security situation from someone who has actually been there. If you have been wondering why “Venezuela” is back in Washington’s favourite slot machine of menace, it is partly because the US has been conducting military strikes on small boats it says are drug-trafficking vessels operating near Venezuela. The argument has now shifted from “should we do this?” to the much more awkward “did we just do something illegal on camera?” The flashpoint is a reported episode from early September in which a strike hit a suspected drug boat and a later strike allegedly killed survivors clinging to the wreckage, prompting lawmakers and legal experts to ask whether this crossed the bright-line rule against attacking shipwrecked people who are no longer fighting. The White House and Pentagon have disputed the most damning interpretation, including claims that there was a “kill them all” directive. Congress has been demanding video footage, explanations, and the mysterious legal theory that turns “smuggling” into something that can be treated as armed conflict. Meanwhile, the strikes have reportedly continued, with dozens of dead across more than twenty incidents since September, creating the kind of moral and legal hangover you tend to get when you rebrand law enforcement as war and then discover the laws of war come with inconvenient fine print. <https://substack.com/redirect/6cc1c6c3-683a-4781-aade-32c0c57b8c13?j=eyJ1IjoiM3oxb3ZvIn0.8F23ZsL0FrlN6ZHlVPR0s6DTjmoZwDql8W1ssgSTYow> I have no firm conclusions on the much-debated legality of the September strike. There is not enough information in the public space. We need to know more. What exactly was the intended target? If it were the shipwrecked crew, then there is no question: it was a war crime. But: it may have been the boat, which makes the situation more complicated. What was the military necessity of the second strike on the boat? And what about the situation prohibited any effort to rescue the shipwrecked crew before the boat sank? What weapon system was used, and was it set for an anti-personnel or an anti-equipment effect? These are the things we need to know before we make a fair assessment. On to the broader issues. Venezuela is a problem for the United States in the way a leaky ceiling is a problem: annoying, persistent, occasionally expensive, and a sign that something structural has gone wrong somewhere. It is not, however, a problem in the way an incoming asteroid is. If you are trying to decide how much of a “threat” Venezuela is, the first step is to ask what kind of threat you mean, because “threat” is one of those political words that expands to fill whatever container you pour it into. If you mean a direct military threat to the US homeland, the answer is simple and deeply uncinematic. Venezuela is not set up to invade Florida, storm Corpus Christi, or conduct any conventional operation that would require the US to do the national security equivalent of grabbing the fire extinguisher and yelling for everyone to get out. Venezuela’s military has serious readiness and maintenance constraints and a limited ability to project power beyond its immediate neighbourhood. In a straight conventional matchup, the US advantage is so lopsided that the only plausible Venezuelan military doctrine worth discussing is what they might do if someone invaded them, not what they might do to attack the United States. If you came here for Tom Clancy, I am afraid you are going to leave with something far more nuanced. If you mean a transnational crime-and-corruption problem, we are now on firmer ground. The US has indicted senior Venezuelan officials for drug trafficking and narco-terrorism conspiracies, and Washington has spent years arguing that parts of the Venezuelan state function less like a government than like a toll booth for illicit commerce. This is the realm where Venezuela under Maduro matters: as a permissive environment for criminal networks, including actors involved in the cocaine trade, and as a place where organised crime can enjoy the kind of “regulatory flexibility” that tends to come with entrenched corruption. <https://substack.com/redirect/30a15ef8-a13a-462c-a761-e2f5bf3d7791?j=eyJ1IjoiM3oxb3ZvIn0.8F23ZsL0FrlN6ZHlVPR0s6DTjmoZwDql8W1ssgSTYow> Trump and Maduro You can add in the modern accessory package: gang exports. The Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua is not a bedtime story. It has been linked to violent and predatory criminal activity across multiple countries, and US law enforcement has indicted alleged members for everything from trafficking to racketeering. None of this is imaginary. It is also, to be clear, not a synonym for “Venezuelan migrant,” despite how eagerly the public conversation tries to turn those phrases into interchangeable parts. That distinction matters because this is precisely where Trump’s rhetoric tends to sprint away from evidence and jog directly into folklore. There is a recurring claim that Venezuela “emptied its prisons” and sent criminals north in some deliberate state programme, and that Venezuelan migrants as a group are a major driver of American crime. The broader body of research on immigration and crime in the US generally does not support the idea that immigrants, on average, commit more crime than native-born citizens; in many datasets, the opposite is true. In Latin America, studies of Venezuelan migrants often find they offend at rates lower than the native population when you adjust for population size. That does not mean there are no criminals among migrants. It means the move from “some criminals exist” to “this population is a criminal threat” is more campaign strategy than a reasonable, evidence-based conclusion. There is also the popular trick of confusing “Venezuela is implicated in drug trafficking” with “Venezuela is the primary source of America’s drug crisis,” which is like blaming a sore throat on the existence of weather. US drug threat assessments in recent years have been overwhelmingly dominated by fentanyl and the networks that produce and move it, with Mexican cartels playing an outsized role. Cocaine remains a significant issue, but the dominant corridors moving cocaine toward the United States have typically run through Central America and other routes that are not simply “Venezuela did it.” Available inter-agency estimates suggest the portion of US-bound cocaine transiting Venezuela is not the majority share, and often not even close. Venezuela is part of the illicit ecosystem. It is not the sun around which the whole solar system spins. If you mean “geopolitical nuisance with undesirable friends,” Venezuela again qualifies, and the list of friends is exactly who you would expect if you have been following the global plotline since roughly the invention of sanctions. One might suggest that this factor is the truth behind the Washington rhetoric. Venezuela has cultivated ties with Russia, China, and Iran, in various combinations of financial support, diplomatic cooperation, and the sort of military or security collaboration that makes Washington’s planners reach for the red pen. This is not nothing. It is also not the same thing as “Venezuela is about to topple American power.” It is, instead, a familiar pattern: a regime under pressure diversifies its patrons, US adversaries gain a foothold in a region the US has historically treated as strategically important, and so Washington wishes to do something about it. Think of it more as a long-term migraine rather than a sudden heart attack. So does Trump have “any case at all”? Yes, but it is a case in the way that a late-night kebab restaurant has “some hygiene problems.” There are objective facts underneath the performance. Venezuela’s regime is deeply corrupt. US prosecutors have pursued serious charges against senior figures, and transnational criminal groups linked to Venezuela are real and operational. A president who takes those concerns seriously and wants robust law enforcement, intelligence coordination, sanctions where appropriate, and targeted action against specific networks is not automatically inventing a problem. The issue is what happens next, when the policy conversation gets swapped out for a cinematic trailer voiceover. Trump’s public framing frequently treats Venezuela not as a complicated regional problem but as a kind of all-purpose villain: exporter of criminals, engine of America’s drug crisis, and near-peer security menace all rolled into one convenient Latin American package. That is where the case weakens, because it requires ignoring scale, substituting insinuation for evidence, and treating any Venezuelan connection to crime as proof of a grand state-directed plot. It also invites strategies that sound tough on television but come with serious legal and strategic complications in real life. When the conversation turns into “war footing” language against cartels or expansive military postures tied to a drug narrative, you run into the awkward detail that the US legal framework for sustained military action is not designed for “we’re mad about transnational crime, so we’ll improvise.” Even if you think extraordinary measures are justified, it starts to matter whether the threat being invoked actually matches the scope of the response. A superpower can always do something dramatic. The question is whether that something dramatic is smart, lawful, and proportionate, or whether it is the geopolitical equivalent of trying to fix a plumbing leak by launching a missile at the sink. Public opinion, when polled, tends to be less enthusiastic about treating Venezuela as a major military target than the loudest voices suggest. Most Americans do not appear to be begging for a large-scale intervention. That does not mean they are relaxed about drugs, crime, or border management. It means they can still tell the difference between “this is a serious problem” and “this is a pretext for something bigger.” The most helpful way to think about Venezuela as a “threat” is to stop treating the word as a single category. Venezuela is not primarily a conventional military danger to the United States. Venezuela is, more plausibly, a governance failure that creates space for criminal networks, corruption, and occasional regional destabilisation, plus a strategic irritant because it fraternises with states Washington, quite rightly, would prefer did not have a friendly perch in the hemisphere. Those are different problems requiring different tools, and when you mash them into one melodramatic noun, you end up with policies designed for the wrong enemy. If you want a cynical summary, here it is. Venezuela is threatening enough to be useful in a campaign, not threatening enough to justify the apocalyptic language, and complicated enough that the boring solutions tend to disappoint everyone who came for a showdown. The tragedy of modern politics is that boredom is often the correct response, and boredom does not poll well. This is really the core answer: Venezuela is a genuine security concern in specific channels such as crime networks, corruption, and strategic partnerships. Trump has a case when he points to those channels. He loses the case when he treats them as proof that an entire nation of migrants is a criminal brigade, or when he inflates a messy, chronic problem into a near-existential emergency that demands broad, theatrical escalation. The facts are bad enough. They do not need the special effects. <https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=2661554&post_id=180781749&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&isFreemail=false&comments=true&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoyNDAyNjM5ODgsInBvc3RfaWQiOjE4MDc4MTc0OSwiaWF0IjoxNzY0OTMwOTA3LCJleHAiOjE3Njc1MjI5MDcsImlzcyI6InB1Yi0yNjYxNTU0Iiwic3ViIjoicG9zdC1yZWFjdGlvbiJ9.PxCF6XgJ-myi5W9um55pu6r8Z7z8UdBwOs6_s3lw6M4&r=3z1ovo&utm_campaign=email-half-magic-comments&action=post-comment> Leave a comment Your support lets me spend less time arguing on X and more time doing research and fieldwork, talking to people on the ground and writing for you. I don’t take that lightly. If you ever feel this isn’t worth what you’re paying, please reply and tell me why before you cancel — I’d rather fix it than lose you. If you want to help even more, the best thing you can do is share the free posts I send out — that’s how new serious readers find their way here. If there’s ever anything you’d like me to cover for members only, reply and let me know. <https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=2661554&post_id=180781749&utm_source=substack&isFreemail=false&submitLike=true&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoyNDAyNjM5ODgsInBvc3RfaWQiOjE4MDc4MTc0OSwicmVhY3Rpb24iOiLinaQiLCJpYXQiOjE3NjQ5MzA5MDcsImV4cCI6MTc2NzUyMjkwNywiaXNzIjoicHViLTI2NjE1NTQiLCJzdWIiOiJyZWFjdGlvbiJ9.kcqEeScPGh5qLzDedMrBapQx3Ng3LCSgjqNlTUKBy7w&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=email-reaction&r=3z1ovo> Like <https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=2661554&post_id=180781749&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&isFreemail=false&comments=true&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoyNDAyNjM5ODgsInBvc3RfaWQiOjE4MDc4MTc0OSwiaWF0IjoxNzY0OTMwOTA3LCJleHAiOjE3Njc1MjI5MDcsImlzcyI6InB1Yi0yNjYxNTU0Iiwic3ViIjoicG9zdC1yZWFjdGlvbiJ9.PxCF6XgJ-myi5W9um55pu6r8Z7z8UdBwOs6_s3lw6M4&r=3z1ovo&utm_campaign=email-half-magic-comments&action=post-comment&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email> Comment Restack © 2025 Andrew Fox 548 Market Street PMB 72296, San Francisco, CA 94104 Unsubscribe <https://substack.com/redirect/2/eyJlIjoiaHR0cHM6Ly9zdWJzdGFjay5jb20vc2lnbnVwP3V0bV9zb3VyY2U9c3Vic3RhY2smdXRtX21lZGl1bT1lbWFpbCZ1dG1fY29udGVudD1mb290ZXImdXRtX2NhbXBhaWduPWF1dG9maWxsZWQtZm9vdGVyJmZyZWVTaWdudXBFbWFpbD1hbGJpZW1mb3hAZ21haWwuY29tJnI9M3oxb3ZvIiwicCI6MTgwNzgxNzQ5LCJzIjoyNjYxNTU0LCJmIjpmYWxzZSwidSI6MjQwMjYzOTg4LCJpYXQiOjE3NjQ5MzA5MDcsImV4cCI6MjA4MDUwNjkwNywiaXNzIjoicHViLTAiLCJzdWIiOiJsaW5rLXJlZGlyZWN0In0.cl41cwI7BzdYHKZow6Yj2UAHWVTNfDgXgkwT-ZHnlWU?> From: Brian Miller <brianjmiller1977@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, December 5, 2025 2:14 PM To: Harold Brattland <habrattland@arvig.net> Cc: helobubbas@helobubbas.com Subject: [Helobubbas] Re: The Seditious Six I’m a little unclear as to how the Constitution was ignored? I’m not a Constitutional scholar by any means, but since six Congressmen with full access to the greatest legal minds the government can offer and subpoena power to conduct oversight were either unwilling or unable to cite any specific illegal orders, perhaps someone here can break it down for me in a way literally nobody else can. I mean, if the Constitution was ignored, Congress has a duty to stop this illegal war immediately. Just think of all the social media clout they would get! I bet Jimmy Kimmel would squirt out some genuine tears of joy. On Fri, Dec 5, 2025 at 3:12 PM Harold Brattland <habrattland@arvig.net <mailto:habrattland@arvig.net> > wrote: While yucking it up about lawyers and congressmen, don't forget the non-military counsel in Office of Legal Council DOJ that wrote the classified opinion providing the basis (legal basis???) for combat ops in Caribbean, since no action requested of Congress. Stupid is ignoring the Constitution, thinking no one will notice. h On 12/4/2025 15:22, Marc Liebman wrote: You can’t fix stupid. Marc Liebman <https://www.marcliebman.com> https://www.marcliebman.com <https://www.facebook.com/marcliebmanauthor/> https://www.facebook.com/marcliebmanauthor/ <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_sDoFQM5wupNaCeGIvKL1g> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_sDoFQM5wupNaCeGIvKL1g From: Mike Brattland <mailto:mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> <mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2025 at 10:28 AM To: 'Brian Miller' <mailto:brianjmiller1977@gmail.com> <brianjmiller1977@gmail.com> Cc: 'HeloBubbas' <mailto:helobubbas@helobubbas.com> <helobubbas@helobubbas.com> Subject: [Helobubbas] Re: The Seditious Six I enjoy hearing from actual lawyers. These morons are so isolated from reality that they thought they were attacking Trump instead of the reality that they undermining the lawful chain of command. That makes them stupid, but not criminal. It hasn’t gone over well in the veteran spaces I follow and the fact that space boi is parading himself around like a victim of his own idiocy instead of taking ownership of his attack on good order snd discipline on the deck plates hasn’t helped his case. What a great, original and accurate description for the Senator from Arizona Brian! mgb _______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com <mailto:helobubbas@helobubbas.com> To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com <mailto:helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com> -- Harold & Elaine Brattland 609 Granger Rd, Detroit Lakes MN 56501-4112 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/609+Granger+Rd,+Detroit+Lakes+MN%0D%0A++++++++++++56501-4112?entry=gmail&source=g> Home Phone 218.846.1283, habrattland@Arvig.net <mailto:habrattland@Arvig.net> | <mailto:embrattland@Arvig.net> embrattland@Arvig.net _______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com <mailto:helobubbas@helobubbas.com> To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com <mailto:helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com>

No disrespect, but what is your point, Harold? I am seeking to understand. On Fri, Dec 5, 2025 at 2:12 PM Harold Brattland <habrattland@arvig.net> wrote:

While yucking it up about lawyers and congressmen, don't forget the non-military counsel in Office of Legal Council DOJ that wrote the classified opinion providing the basis (legal basis???) for combat ops in Caribbean, since no action requested of Congress. Stupid is ignoring the Constitution, thinking no one will notice. h

On 12/4/2025 15:22, Marc Liebman wrote:

You can’t fix stupid.

Marc Liebman

https://www.marcliebman.com

https://www.facebook.com/marcliebmanauthor/

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_sDoFQM5wupNaCeGIvKL1g

*From: *Mike Brattland <mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> <mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> *Date: *Thursday, December 4, 2025 at 10:28 AM *To: *'Brian Miller' <brianjmiller1977@gmail.com> <brianjmiller1977@gmail.com> *Cc: *'HeloBubbas' <helobubbas@helobubbas.com> <helobubbas@helobubbas.com> *Subject: *[Helobubbas] Re: The Seditious Six

I enjoy hearing from actual lawyers. These morons are so isolated from reality that they thought they were attacking Trump instead of the reality that they undermining the lawful chain of command. That makes them stupid, but not criminal. It hasn’t gone over well in the veteran spaces I follow and the fact that space boi is parading himself around like a victim of his own idiocy instead of taking ownership of his attack on good order snd discipline on the deck plates hasn’t helped his case.

What a great, original and accurate description for the Senator from Arizona Brian! mgb

_______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com

--

Harold & Elaine Brattland

<habrattland@Comcast.net>609 Granger Rd, Detroit Lakes MN 56501-4112

Home Phone 218.846.1283,

habrattland@Arvig.net | embrattland@Arvig.net

_______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com

-- Best regards, Jim

We always hope when going into a "war," we have support of an Act of Congress properly passed proving authority, funding, and limitations..   In case of current operations, called a war by some, there is scant authority provided only by a legal write up by OLC.  It is classified so public can't know the extent or basis for actions.   Congressman on Intel cmte could see it but can't characterize it, only to imply it is questionable authority.  Again, its quite basic  that war operations in a new place requires Congressional Act. Apparently, some don't know that.   Pity too, its a Coast Guard policing mission and they have been doing it effectively. On 12/8/2025 14:22, Robert Cameron wrote:

Thanks for asking - confused me, too.

On Mon, Dec 8, 2025 at 1:44 PM James Lowder <lowderjf@gmail.com> wrote:

No disrespect, but what is your point, Harold? I am seeking to understand.

On Fri, Dec 5, 2025 at 2:12 PM Harold Brattland <habrattland@arvig.net> wrote:

While yucking it up about lawyers and congressmen, don't forget the non-military counsel in Office of Legal Council DOJ that wrote the classified opinion providing the basis (legal basis???) for combat ops in Caribbean, since no action requested of Congress.    Stupid is ignoring the Constitution, thinking no one will notice. h

On 12/4/2025 15:22, Marc Liebman wrote:

...

You can’t fix stupid.

Marc Liebman

https://www.marcliebman.com <https://www.marcliebman.com>

https://www.facebook.com/marcliebmanauthor/ <https://www.facebook.com/marcliebmanauthor/>

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_sDoFQM5wupNaCeGIvKL1g <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_sDoFQM5wupNaCeGIvKL1g>

*From: *Mike Brattland <mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> <mailto:mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> *Date: *Thursday, December 4, 2025 at 10:28 AM *To: *'Brian Miller' <brianjmiller1977@gmail.com> <mailto:brianjmiller1977@gmail.com> *Cc: *'HeloBubbas' <helobubbas@helobubbas.com> <mailto:helobubbas@helobubbas.com> *Subject: *[Helobubbas] Re: The Seditious Six

I enjoy hearing from actual lawyers.  These morons are so isolated from reality that they thought they were attacking Trump instead of the reality that they undermining the lawful chain of command.  That makes them stupid, but not criminal.  It hasn’t gone over well in the veteran spaces I follow and the fact that space boi is parading himself around like a victim of his own idiocyinstead of taking ownership of his attack on good order snd discipline on the deck plates hasn’t helped his case.

What a great, original and accurate description for the Senator from Arizona Brian! mgb

_______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list --helobubbas@helobubbas.com To unsubscribe send an email tohelobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com

--

Harold & Elaine Brattland

// <mailto:habrattland@Comcast.net>//609 Granger Rd, Detroit Lakes MN 56501-4112

Home Phone 218.846.1283,

habrattland@Arvig.net | embrattland@Arvig.net <mailto:embrattland@Arvig.net>

_______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com

-- Best regards, Jim _______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com

-- untitled Harold & Elaine Brattland //// <mailto:habrattland@Comcast.net>//609 Granger Rd, Detroit Lakes MN 56501-4112 Home Phone 218.846.1283, habrattland@Arvig.net | embrattland@Arvig.net <mailto:embrattland@Arvig.net>

"Is it legal to use force?" s always an issue.   Please correct me if I'm wrong, our reason for using force was sold as finding WMDs and in hindsight...no WMDs. After 20 boat attacks have we found any drugs?  W/r, AL In a message dated 12/10/2025 7:24:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, lowderjf@gmail.com writes:  What a pleasant fiction! The last time Congress passed a declaration of war was 8 December 1941, after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, followed in 1941-42 by declarations against Germany, Italy, Romania and Bulgaria. As far as I know, WWII was one of only five declared wars in the history of the United States, including the War of 1812, the Mexican War, the Spanish-American War, and World War I. Neither Korea nor Vietnam were declared to be "wars." Truman called the Korean War a "police action." Despite the dozens of "police action" instances of Presidential use of deadly military force since passage of the War Powers Resolution in 1986, including six major UNAUTHORIZED combat interventions (Panama/Bush, Somalia/Bush-Clinton, Bosnia/Clinton, Haiti/Clinton, Bosnia/Clinton, Kosovo/Clinton, Libya/Obama), only three have have received Congressional authorization for the use of military force (AUMF): Persian Gulf (1991), Afghanistan (2001) and Iraq (2002). Actually, Harold, I share your sensibilities: My preference was and is that Congress pass an AUMF to support presidential interventions, or pass a resolution condemning them, but that is not the world we live in. The fact is that Trump's use of force in the Caribbean is remarkably unremarkable in that it is relatively modest and not unique by comparison to Presidential precedent. Unless and until he sends combat troops into Venezuela, at which time I will hope for an AUMF, I believe it to be perfectly legal and it bothers me not one whit.  In my view, it is about time that someone besides Enrique Camarena took the war on the cartels seriously, and I applaud the President for finally taking prudent and effective action. I would bet my life that those plastic drums in the cigarette boat that I saw get blown up on the video in international waters were filled with illegal drugs of the kind that has destroyed the lives of many of my family members. The only thing I might have done differently regarding the second strike would be to use the wreckage as bait to lure another drug boat to the rescue and into my sights... On Wed, Dec 10, 2025 at 6:25 PM Harold Brattland <habrattland@arvig.net> wrote: We always hope when going into a "war," we have support of an Act of Congress properly passed proving authority, funding, and limitations..   In case of current operations, called a war by some, there is scant authority provided only by a legal write up by OLC.  It is classified so public can't know the extent or basis for actions.   Congressman on Intel cmte could see it but can't characterize it, only to imply it is questionable authority.  Again, its quite basic  that war operations in a new place requires Congressional Act.    Apparently, some don't know that.   Pity too, its a Coast Guard policing mission and they have been doing it effectively. On 12/8/2025 14:22, Robert Cameron wrote: Thanks for asking - confused me, too.   On Mon, Dec 8, 2025 at 1:44 PM James Lowder <lowderjf@gmail.com> wrote: No disrespect, but what is your point, Harold? I am seeking to understand. On Fri, Dec 5, 2025 at 2:12 PM Harold Brattland <habrattland@arvig.net> wrote: While yucking it up about lawyers and congressmen, don't forget the non-military counsel in Office of Legal Council DOJ that wrote the classified opinion providing the basis (legal basis???) for combat ops in Caribbean, since no action requested of Congress.    Stupid is ignoring the Constitution, thinking no one will notice. h On 12/4/2025 15:22, Marc Liebman wrote: You can’t fix stupid.   Marc Liebman https://www.marcliebman.com https://www.facebook.com/marcliebmanauthor/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_sDoFQM5wupNaCeGIvKL1g     From: Mike Brattland <mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2025 at 10:28 AM To: 'Brian Miller' <brianjmiller1977@gmail.com> Cc: 'HeloBubbas' <helobubbas@helobubbas.com> Subject: [Helobubbas] Re: The Seditious Six     I enjoy hearing from actual lawyers.  These morons are so isolated from reality that they thought they were attacking Trump instead of the reality that they undermining the lawful chain of command.  That makes them stupid, but not criminal.  It hasn’t gone over well in the veteran spaces I follow and the fact that space boi is parading himself around like a victim of his own idiocy instead of taking ownership of his attack on good order snd discipline on the deck plates hasn’t helped his case.   What a great, original and accurate description for the Senator from Arizona Brian! mgb _______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com -- Harold & Elaine Brattland 609 Granger Rd, Detroit Lakes MN 56501-4112 Home Phone 218.846.1283, habrattland@Arvig.net | embrattland@Arvig.net _______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com   -- Best regards,Jim_______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com -- Harold & Elaine Brattland 609 Granger Rd, Detroit Lakes MN 56501-4112 Home Phone 218.846.1283, habrattland@Arvig.net | embrattland@Arvig.net   -- Best regards,Jim_______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com

Who benefits from the release of the Epstein files? Perhaps President Trump benefits. He obviously washed his hands before Epstein was convicted, and avoided him thereafter. Was the slow release a trap he set for Democrats and their fellow travelers? They were the ones "protected" by the delay. (Larry Summers, Bill Clinton, Bill Gates, Woody Allen, Ehud Barak, et al). It does not make sense to me. There will be no successful prosecution for extra judicial killings, just as there were none for Obama targeting an American citizen with a drone, Trump's assassination of Soleimani, or the dozens of other instances of extrajudicial violence perpetrated against "foreign enemies" by the past eleven Presidents. Only Obama's targeting of an American Citizen has risen to the level of some sort of consensus on Constitutional illegality. At least Trump has distinguished himself from past Presidents by going beyond Article II of the Constitution to justify his actions, by invoking both the Immigration and Nationality and Alien Enemies Acts. The "oil" argument makes no sense. West Texas crude has gone up less than a dollar and still hovers at less than break even for oil producers. On Thu, Dec 11, 2025 at 12:40 AM Harold Brattland <habrattland@arvig.net> wrote:

Its all a diversion from Epstein Files release! With a little bit of oil infused! South Commander Said no; South Command JAG said no; both sent to other duties until retirement. And those guys doing the killing are up for extra-judicial actions. And someone is pissed that Peace Prize went to the elected leader of the country! A mess er have never seen before in a century! Good to be retired!

On 12/10/2025 22:10, ahaefner@aol.com wrote:

"Is it legal to use force?" s always an issue.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, our reason for using force was sold as finding WMDs and in hindsight...no WMDs. After 20 boat attacks have we found any drugs?

W/r, AL

In a message dated 12/10/2025 7:24:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, lowderjf@gmail.com writes:

What a pleasant fiction! The last time Congress passed a declaration of war was 8 December 1941, after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, followed in 1941-42 by declarations against Germany, Italy, Romania and Bulgaria. As far as I know, WWII was one of only five declared wars in the history of the United States, including the War of 1812, the Mexican War, the Spanish-American War, and World War I. Neither Korea nor Vietnam were declared to be "wars." Truman called the Korean War a "police action."

Despite the dozens of "police action" instances of Presidential use of deadly military force since passage of the War Powers Resolution in 1986, including six major UNAUTHORIZED combat interventions (Panama/Bush, Somalia/Bush-Clinton, Bosnia/Clinton, Haiti/Clinton, Bosnia/Clinton, Kosovo/Clinton, Libya/Obama), only three have have received Congressional authorization for the use of military force (AUMF): Persian Gulf (1991), Afghanistan (2001) and Iraq (2002).

Actually, Harold, I share your sensibilities: My preference was and is that Congress pass an AUMF to support presidential interventions, or pass a resolution condemning them, but that is not the world we live in. The fact is that Trump's use of force in the Caribbean is remarkably unremarkable in that it is relatively modest and not unique by comparison to Presidential precedent. Unless and until he sends combat troops into Venezuela, at which time I will hope for an AUMF, I believe it to be perfectly legal and it bothers me not one whit.

In my view, it is about time that someone besides Enrique Camarena took the war on the cartels seriously, and I applaud the President for finally taking prudent and effective action. I would bet my life that those plastic drums in the cigarette boat that I saw get blown up on the video in international waters were filled with illegal drugs of the kind that has destroyed the lives of many of my family members. The only thing I might have done differently regarding the second strike would be to use the wreckage as bait to lure another drug boat to the rescue and into my sights...

On Wed, Dec 10, 2025 at 6:25 PM Harold Brattland <habrattland@arvig.net> wrote:

We always hope when going into a "war," we have support of an Act of Congress properly passed proving authority, funding, and limitations.. In case of current operations, called a war by some, there is scant authority provided only by a legal write up by OLC. It is classified so public can't know the extent or basis for actions. Congressman on Intel cmte could see it but can't characterize it, only to imply it is questionable authority. Again, its quite basic that war operations in a new place requires Congressional Act. Apparently, some don't know that. Pity too, its a Coast Guard policing mission and they have been doing it effectively.

On 12/8/2025 14:22, Robert Cameron wrote:

Thanks for asking - confused me, too.

On Mon, Dec 8, 2025 at 1:44 PM James Lowder <lowderjf@gmail.com> wrote:

No disrespect, but what is your point, Harold? I am seeking to understand.

On Fri, Dec 5, 2025 at 2:12 PM Harold Brattland <habrattland@arvig.net> wrote:

While yucking it up about lawyers and congressmen, don't forget the non-military counsel in Office of Legal Council DOJ that wrote the classified opinion providing the basis (legal basis???) for combat ops in Caribbean, since no action requested of Congress. Stupid is ignoring the Constitution, thinking no one will notice. h

On 12/4/2025 15:22, Marc Liebman wrote:

You can’t fix stupid.

Marc Liebman

https://www.marcliebman.com

https://www.facebook.com/marcliebmanauthor/

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_sDoFQM5wupNaCeGIvKL1g

*From: *Mike Brattland <mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> <mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com> *Date: *Thursday, December 4, 2025 at 10:28 AM *To: *'Brian Miller' <brianjmiller1977@gmail.com> <brianjmiller1977@gmail.com> *Cc: *'HeloBubbas' <helobubbas@helobubbas.com> <helobubbas@helobubbas.com> *Subject: *[Helobubbas] Re: The Seditious Six

I enjoy hearing from actual lawyers. These morons are so isolated from reality that they thought they were attacking Trump instead of the reality that they undermining the lawful chain of command. That makes them stupid, but not criminal. It hasn’t gone over well in the veteran spaces I follow and the fact that space boi is parading himself around like a victim of his own idiocy instead of taking ownership of his attack on good order snd discipline on the deck plates hasn’t helped his case.

What a great, original and accurate description for the Senator from Arizona Brian! mgb

_______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com

--

Harold & Elaine Brattland

609 Granger Rd, Detroit Lakes MN 56501-4112

Home Phone 218.846.1283,

habrattland@Arvig.net | embrattland@Arvig.net _______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com

-- Best regards, Jim _______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com

--

Harold & Elaine Brattland

609 Granger Rd, Detroit Lakes MN 56501-4112

Home Phone 218.846.1283,

habrattland@Arvig.net | embrattland@Arvig.net

-- Best regards, Jim _______________________________________________ Helobubbas mailing list -- helobubbas@helobubbas.com To unsubscribe send an email to helobubbas-leave@helobubbas.com

--

Harold & Elaine Brattland

<habrattland@Comcast.net>609 Granger Rd, Detroit Lakes MN 56501-4112

Home Phone 218.846.1283,

habrattland@Arvig.net | embrattland@Arvig.net

-- Best regards, Jim