Yea, Brian knows the term ADS-B!! Now Army has the dilemma of supporting their mission in DC without training flights(just wait for the Natl Emergency) or trade H-60L models up to those which has ADSB - in and -out functions. I believe the AF H-72s with that mission do, as well as other models. If you listened to the testimony before NTSB by commercial operators in DCA, they were very annoyed with Army not getting into 21st century and trying to operate in that complex airspace environment. This is way beyond the common IFF modes. It gets into the data displays and _update rates_ available in TRACON and Tower controller positions, plus anti-collision systems in airliners... Those high speed rotation terminal radars provide the data at high rate towers need for deconfliction decisions. Marc, I never flew anything beyond Mode-3 or needed to. But have been keeping up with trends through 50-years of Aviation Week, etc. And my last go in the DCA river route was '67 when DCA tower didn't have radar screen, just actually seeing you at Haines Point at 50foot agl!!! And the testimony from Helicopter Ambulance operators was They actually fly IFR routes night and day in DCA airspace, so always on someones screen!! h On 3/29/2026 11:46, Marc Liebman wrote:
untitled
I am stunned that the Army flies around without a transponder in congested civilian airspace. I am not surprised that the FAA’s radar didn’t pick up the helo since controllers no longer can see the raw radar data. It’s a big problem with GA airplanes, particularly those without transponders. I thought the FAA required transponders on all airplanes flying in “controlled” airspace which is about 90% of the U.S. unless you are at 200 feet herding cattle in Wyoming or West Texas.
Marc Liebman
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*From: *Harold Brattland <habrattland@arvig.net> *Date: *Sunday, March 29, 2026 at 12:13 AM *To: *Marc Liebman <marc@marcliebman.com>, "helobubbas@helobubbas.com" <helobubbas@helobubbas.com> *Subject: *Re: [Helobubbas] Re: Do they teach course rules in the Army?
You probably ought to re-read the finding from the DCA accident. reports...there is an "in" and "out" functions that Army is not equipped and/or refuses to turn on when they are equipped. This is the system that puts out position to other equipped aircraft and also ATC radars and makes them visible. Army is about 20 years behind. and were taken to task by NTSB and civilian helos operating in DC airspace. There is a big acronym I am leaving out...cant remember it. but its in the NTSB report......transponder missing on the firetruck in this weeks accident. By the way, Army folks fly around over land all the time....the problem was radar approach control couldn't see them on current equipment...
On 3/27/2026 20:41, Marc Liebman wrote:
I gotta believe that the FAA still monitors Mode 3. I haven’t flown a military helo since 1991, but even then, in U.S. airspace we always had mode 3 on unless we were on an exercise that allowed turning off the transponder. Also, flying around commercial airports unless it was an absolute necessity was a no no. Maybe they don’t teach BAW anymore, one of which is looking outside the cockpit.
Marc Liebman
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*From: *Harold Brattland <habrattland@arvig.net> <mailto:habrattland@arvig.net> *Date: *Friday, March 27, 2026 at 6:39 PM *To: *"helobubbas@helobubbas.com" <mailto:helobubbas@helobubbas.com> <helobubbas@helobubbas.com> <mailto:helobubbas@helobubbas.com> *Subject: *[Helobubbas] Re: Do they teach course rules in the Army?
May not be the pilots...we learned from DCA accident the old Blackhawks don't have proper transponder functionality and their rules are to not use the Adsb functions. So radar controllers may not see the data on scopes, and the avoidance systems
May not be the pilots...we learned from DCA accident the old Blackhawks don't have proper transponder functionality and their rules are to not use the Adsb functions. So radar controllers may not see the data on scopes, and the avoidance systems in airliner don't give collision warnings at proper time. And see and avoid advise can so longer be used in directing helo. Probably, will cause an investigation by FAA though.
On 3/27/2026 17:34, mgbrattland@gerlecreek.com wrote:
I am guessing this Blackhawk is from Los Alamitos where the Army Air Guard
has hung their hats for years and years....mgb
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-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Black<kblack1967@gmail.com> <mailto:kblack1967@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2026 3:08 PM
To:helobubbas@helobubbas.com
Subject: [Helobubbas] Do they teach course rules in the Army?
United 737 dodges Blackhawk near John Wayne airport.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/united-jet-dodges-black-hawk-last-second-maneuver
-over-california-airport-that-not-good
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